Yet Another Rebuttal to Mohamed Alsous (@meta4malsous) on Twitter

by idebunkforme

Mohamed Alsous (@meta4malsous) on Twitter finally replied to another point in my takedown of his “dismantling of atheists.”

As you can see, he’s bypassed point two. He insists others admit that, if they don’t respond to a claim of his, it means that they must admit that he’s right. Hypocrisy in action.

Here again are his responses. My responses will be in red.

Me: The big bang theory the most popular theory to the beginning of the universe, factors in an energy or infinitely dense matter that somehow for some reason exploded, yet never (and cannot) explains How energy entered into this equation? What caused the explosion..? Such questions that when thinking about point to an intelligent designer. And we know this from edward hubbles experiment which later concluded to the big bang that the universe had a beginning, now where does the beginning come from..? How could it even come in to play without any matter/energy present? Well my friends that leaves you utterly quiet because God, a source ABOVE the natural laws not bound by them is the only answer.

Him: It didn’t explode. It expanded. While matter and antimatter annihilated each other. This does not require an intelligent designer, merely a considerable understanding of the models put forward to explain all available evidence. You can’t put a placeholder into the mix, stating it’s your god, and it becomes valid until there’s a better explanation, when that god does not explain anything at all. How did your god do this? Where did that god come from? Without these, the premise of this god adds complexity and more unknowns to explaining the universe, which would be the opposite direction the scientific method leads our understanding.

That is absolutely false, the big bang is the explosion of an infinitely dense matter (singularity) This is said to have created – Time, energy, and matter. This also refutes when the moron said energy was eternal because this is the first time energy can be traced back to it. Anyway, you said all available evidence, lol please share some? As i stated earlier the big bang contradicts all laws of science which is why it still remains a theory, and im not discrediting the big bang i think it’s the best theory (as it’s stated in the quran) but science cannot explain how the universe didn’t continue exploding, HOW IT EVEN EXPLODED..? there was no energy before the big bang, from where does an explosion that creates the whole universe come, from nothing? How did the newly created particles form planets, and from those planets a planet that support life? NOT only that, a planet that revolves are the sound in order to maintain temperature. Science is completely baffled by that. Why doesn’t the earth just stay stationary, it has no mind of its own. Yet you’ll conveniently say oh well it just happened by chance, just like evolution, just like the big bang, just like any other anomaly you can’t find an answer too. Sorry bro i don’t believe in constant miracles over and over again without someone doing them. Anyone can tell you an intelligent design is a better assumption then chance by chance happening over again in our favor. Whether u admit it in arrogance or not is your own doing. My God as well as your God explains it quite clearly in the quran actually. Take a look at it sometime.

Yes, he’s calling me a moron in his reply, after reiterating that the big bang erroneously was an explosion. It was an expansion. See point two on this page for further explanation.

The big bang also did not create energy. The energy present was from conversion of particles into energy, and also the heat from the origins of the universe. These, again, were explained to him, yet he creates a straw man, yet again, to try to defeat. As you can see, he argues that I say one thing which is refuted by something else I said, when he gets both statements wrong.

He also demands evidence, yet all he produces when asked for evidence are quotes from the Quran. Rather than rewrite what’s already easily available (in fact, the first link returned on Google for big bang evidence), I will just offer TalkOrigins’ collection of evidence for the big bang.

Just the fact that he argues a science “still remains a theory” automatically discounts any arguments he has about science. To say such a thing, being ignorant about what theory means in science, shows that his opinions on any science are meaningless. Because of this, I’ll skip his opinions on science until he can demonstrate an understanding of the basics of science.

And, really, this paragraph is useless to respond to further, as he reiterates that the big bang was an explosion ad nauseum.

When describing the creation of the “heavens and the earth,” the Quran does not discount the theory of a “Big Bang” explosion at the start of it all. In fact, the Quran says that “the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder” (21:30).
Following this big explosion, Allah “turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come together, willingly or unwillingly.’
{Another scientific miracle that smoke, a clear, scene after the big bang occurred.} dense-less, cloud was the BEST way to describe the
They said: ‘We come (together) in willing obedience'” (41:11). Thus the elements and what was to become the planets and stars began to cool, come together, and form into shape, following the natural laws that Allah established in the universe.

As stated in another reply, the earth did not exist in any capacity at the beginning of the universe. Heavier elements that comprise the earth would still be billions of years away. Insisting that the Quran explains the origins of the universe while ignoring this point is a sign of either intellectual dishonesty or wishful thinking.

The initial state of the universe was not smoke. It was plasma. Dense, extremely hot matter so unstable that it could not bind to other particles until it cooled down.

And he presents no evidence that the quotes are based on reality. Quoting the Quran does not establish any credence to their validity. Especially when Mohamed attempts time and time again to turn poetic swaths into scientific knowledge.

The Quran further states that Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits. “It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course” (21:33).

The Quran could state that Allah predicted American Idol, it doesn’t mean that it actually happened. Independent verification is needed, and so far, none has been presented. Planetary orbits were known in Ancient Greece, as far back as the 4th century BCE. Definitely not divine revelation.

Expansion of Universe

The Quran also does not rule out the idea that the universe is continuing to expand. “The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it” (51:47)

Who knew that the universe expanded 1400 years ago Lol? Edward hubble discovered it in the 20th century.

Unfortunately for Mohamed, I went to read the passage here. And it does not have the context he claims it does. 51:24-51

Has there reached you the story of the honored guests of Abraham? –

When they entered upon him and said, “[We greet you with] peace.” He answered, “[And upon you] peace, [you are] a people unknown.

Then he went to his family and came with a fat [roasted] calf

And placed it near them; he said, “Will you not eat?”

And he felt from them apprehension. They said, “Fear not,” and gave him good tidings of a learned boy.

And his wife approached with a cry [of alarm] and struck her face and said, “[I am] a barren old woman!”

They said, “Thus has said your Lord; indeed, He is the Wise, the Knowing.”

[Abraham] said, “Then what is your business [here], O messengers?”

They said, “Indeed, we have been sent to a people of criminals

To send down upon them stones of clay,

Marked in the presence of your Lord for the transgressors.”

So We brought out whoever was in the cities of the believers.

And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims.

And We left therein a sign for those who fear the painful punishment.

And in Moses [was a sign], when We sent him to Pharaoh with clear authority.

But he turned away with his supporters and said,” A magician or a madman.”

So We took him and his soldiers and cast them into the sea, and he was blameworthy.

And in ‘Aad [was a sign], when We sent against them the barren wind.

It left nothing of what it came upon but that it made it like disintegrated ruins.

And in Thamud, when it was said to them, “Enjoy yourselves for a time.”

But they were insolent toward the command of their Lord, so the thunderbolt seized them while they were looking on.

And they were unable to arise, nor could they defend themselves.

And [We destroyed] the people of Noah before; indeed, they were a people defiantly disobedient.

And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.

And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.

And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.

So flee to Allah. Indeed, I am to you from Him a clear warner.

And do not make [as equal] with Allah another deity. Indeed, I am to you from Him a clear warner.

The expansion is done by people, not by any deity. Another dead end for his claims of divine revelation.

Furthermore a God does not complex anything, in fact it provides insight and reason as to why the universe was created, why it maintains itself as such with the orbits, and it not continually collapsing on its self over and over again. And explains why so many anomalies can happen, such as the 5 – 10 examples i gave of extreme examples in my earlier argument. You make things complicated when u try to take God out of the equation which is why you have so many holes in your theories, because a lot of the anomalies in science don’t make sense, such as the big bang, such as the earth rotating around the sun in order to maintain life, such as gravity, such as every single organism in the earth able to find its sustenance on earth.

And the insight and reason into these are . . . ? The “fine-tuned” argument was already debunked.

And things get less complicated when a deity is removed from the equation. With a deity, the explanation is pushed back onto another level; this requires the how, and also what that deity is, exactly. Where did it come from? How does it operate? And so forth. It doesn’t answer any questions, since “godidit” doesn’t explain anything.

As stated earlier, the earth does not rotate around the sun. It revolves around the sun. It rotates on its axis. And how are any of these points unable to “make sense” in science?

“Indeed, within the heavens and earth are signs for the believers.
And in the creation of yourselves and what He disperses of moving creatures are signs for people who are certain [in faith].
And [in] the alternation of night and day and [in] what Allah sends down from the sky of provision and gives life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and [in His] directing of the winds are signs for a people who reason.” (43: 2-5)

Allah points out sign after sign, convenience after convenience that you’ve brushed off, not only that,you deny that and say it’s all by chance? That is the most foolish thought of them all.

Another straw man. No one’s arguing that things are by chance. In the previous reply, it was stated that the quote from Stephen Hawking was mined, and that he explained that the timing was due to natural laws, and not a lucky happenstance. Quoting from the Quran does not explain anything, and mostly it is an attempt to reinterpret what men wrote to be something more than it really is.

“These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?” (43:6)

Note that he never addressed my questions about where his god comes from. Like point 2, he can’t answer it without admitting he is wrong. He cannot declare that science is full of holes for not having all the answers, and not have all the answers for his hole-less explanation of his deity.

He also has refused to update his previous response that had a straw man argument in it as well, even after admitting that it was. He’s still missing the rest of my replies of my original post. It does appear that he simply cannot refute real science, and disappears into his ignorance and mining quotes from the Quran to try to prove that the Quran is really divine revelation.

Debunked, again.

I suggest that, instead of wasting my time, Mohamed Alsous actually researches science first, and stops posting utter nonsense and quotes from the Quran. If he can demonstrate without quoting from the Quran that his deity exists and is capable of the stories in the Quran, then I’ll listen. Otherwise, it’s just another useless reply.